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Too Much Power? A 1788 Town Meeting

Weigh both sides of a ratification debate about federalism and checks and balances.

The town meeting

Read the account of the meeting. The town and its speakers are made up, but their arguments come from real debates of 1787 and 1788.

The Kinderbrook Town Meeting, May 1788

1Voters in the made-up Hudson River town of Kinderbrook, New York, crowd into the tavern for a town meeting. In June, New York's state convention will meet to decide whether to ratify, or approve, the new Constitution written in Philadelphia the summer before. Under the Articles of Confederation, Congress could not collect taxes, and there was no president and no national court. When armed farmers in Massachusetts shut down courts during Shays' Rebellion in 1786 and 1787, Congress could not pay for troops to help. Tonight the town will tell its delegate how to vote.

2Dr. Samuel Whitcomb speaks first. "Neighbors, this Constitution divides power between the nation and the states. The national government will handle war, treaties, coining money and trade between the states. New York keeps its own courts, makes most laws about crimes, marriage and property, and looks after our roads. Inside the national government, power is split again: Congress makes the laws, the President carries them out, and the courts decide cases under them."

3"Better still, each branch can check the others. The President may veto a bill, but Congress can still pass it if two-thirds of each house vote for it again. The Senate must approve the judges the President chooses, and Congress can impeach and remove a President or a judge for serious crimes. As a newspaper essay signed 'Publius' puts it, 'Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.'"

4Josiah Pratt, a farmer, rises. "The doctor makes it sound balanced, but read the words. Congress may tax us directly. Congress may also make all laws 'necessary and proper' for carrying out its powers, and those words could stretch to cover almost anything. The Constitution says national laws are the supreme law of the land, above the laws of New York. And where is a bill of rights to protect free speech and trial by jury? A government in a distant city will not know our needs."

5Captain Elias Grant, who fought in the War for Independence, adds, "I fought a king. Now this plan puts one man in command of the army." Dr. Whitcomb answers that the President serves a four-year term, must be chosen again to stay in office, cannot make laws alone and can be impeached. Mr. Pratt replies that he will support the plan only if amendments protecting people's rights are promised.

6Debates like this one took place across the country. In July 1788, New York's convention narrowly ratified the Constitution, and several states asked for amendments. Congress proposed a Bill of Rights in 1789, and enough states ratified it by 1791.

1.
Why would Shays' Rebellion make some Americans want a stronger national government?
  • A. It showed Congress could not pay for troops to keep order.
  • B. It led Massachusetts to leave the United States.
  • C. It showed the President had grown far too powerful.
  • D. It proved the states did not have courts of their own.
2.
Federalism divides power. Based on Dr. Whitcomb's speech, sort each job by the level of government that would handle it.
Declaring war on another countrySetting the rules for getting marriedMaking coinsTrying a person for a theft in KinderbrookMaking rules for trade between New York and New JerseyRepairing a road near Kinderbrook
National governmentState of New York
3.
Under the Constitution, Congress passes a bill that the President thinks is unwise. What can the President do?
  • A. Veto the bill and send it back to Congress
  • B. Order the states to ignore the new law
  • C. Ask the courts to write a different law
  • D. Remove the members of Congress who voted for it
4.
Word bank: one-half · two-thirds · three-fourths · all

After a veto, a bill can still become law if   of each house of Congress vote for it again.

5.
Draw a line from each check to the branch whose power it limits.
  1. The President vetoes a bill.
  2. The Senate rejects a judge the President chose.
  3. Congress removes a judge for serious crimes.
  1. A. Limits the legislative branch
  2. B. Limits the executive branch
  3. C. Limits the judicial branch
6.
Circle the sentence in which Mr. Pratt worries that Congress could claim powers the Constitution never lists.

The doctor makes it sound balanced, but read the words.Congress may tax us directly.Congress may also make all laws 'necessary and proper' for carrying out its powers, and those words could stretch to cover almost anything.The Constitution says national laws are the supreme law of the land, above the laws of New York.And where is a bill of rights to protect free speech and trial by jury?

7.
Dr. Whitcomb quotes Publius: "Ambition must be made to counteract ambition." What does he mean by it?
  • A. Leaders should keep their goals secret from voters.
  • B. Each branch will guard its power and so check the others.
  • C. States should compete with one another for trade.
  • D. Only ambitious men should be allowed to hold office.

The votes and the outcome

Use the table and the account of the meeting.

Votes in Six State Ratifying Conventions
StateDateYesNo
DelawareDec. 1787300
PennsylvaniaDec. 17874623
MassachusettsFeb. 1788187168
VirginiaJune 17888979
New YorkJuly 17883027
Rhode IslandMay 17903432
8.
Which state in the table approved the Constitution by the smallest margin?
  • A. Virginia
  • B. Rhode Island
  • C. New York
  • D. Massachusetts
9.

How many delegates voted in all at the Massachusetts convention?   delegates

10.
Which conclusion do the table and paragraph 6 best support?
  • A. Most delegates approved it at once, so no changes followed.
  • B. The Bill of Rights was ratified before the Constitution was.
  • C. New York voted no and stayed outside the new nation.
  • D. Ratification was close in several states, and amendments followed.
11.
Dr. Whitcomb supports the Constitution, and Mr. Pratt doubts it. Which idea would both of them most likely accept?
  • A. The Articles of Confederation worked well as written.
  • B. A bill of rights would weaken the new government.
  • C. Power should be limited so no one group grows too strong.
  • D. The national government should run the town's courts.
12.
Captain Grant fears the President could become like a king. Was his fear well founded under the Constitution? Make a claim, use at least two checks or limits from the meeting as evidence, and explain your reasoning.